Monday, 25 February 2013

That is not correct Catholic doctrine


Fr Tim Finigan and Pastor Emeritus have both put this video up but I don't think it can get too much viewing!
Last time there was a papal election, my own thought was that Joseph Ratzinger would never be chosen as the cardinals would think he might be perceived as too traditional, so my hope was for Cardinal Arinze.  It wasn't to be and he'd probably be thought to be too old now (although you never know!)

I like what he says here.  Very clear, very concise, no messing about:
 "That is not Catholic Doctrine!"
He's speaking about the "fundamental option".  I seem to remember that what he describes as NOT Catholic doctrine is pretty much what we were taught at seminary by some of the moral theology profs. Sadly, it was not the only occasion when something that was NOT Catholic doctrine was foisted on us.  Could have done with a visit from Cardinal Arinze - he would have been purrrfect!!!

11 comments:

Trisagion said...

...and they are not even very good theologians

Priceless

Parate Viam Domini said...

"I hereby decide to crush you with this car!"

Oh how I'd like to use that quote for real on the right occasion.

"How many times must I kill that person before it becomes a mortal sin"

What wonderful quotes to lift the spirit on a very sad day for the Church in these Islands. A day where each and every one of us should realise that those in 'control' of the Church in E, W & S really haven't been in control for sometime.

Cardinal Arinze was also the same man who completely dismissed the awful Margaret Hebblethwaite with a wave of his hand as she tried to ingratiate herself with him before or during the last Conclave.

On a related theme and speaking of theolgians (good, bad and indifferent - take your pick) interestingly enough, yesterday, I heard the best Pastoral Letter I have ever heard from Archbishop Kelly....his valedictory one. It was quite sensible and coherent. One of his better efforts. I'm sure that it warmed the Holy Father no end to receive the Archbishop's 'thank-you for your pontificate' letter. It's just a pity the Archbishop hasn't been more sympathetic to Pope Benedict's initatives throught the past 8 years!

Let us remember all our good, holy and orthodox priests, bishops and cardinals at this tempestuous time.

St Peter - pray for us
Our Lady - Seat of Wisdom - pray for us
Veni Sancte Spiritus

GOR said...

This points up something we have frequently lamented – bad catechesis. To those of my generation - brought up on the ‘Penny Catechism’, the ‘Baltimore Catechism’ or similar – there was little doubt about the gravity of sin. The requirements for sin to be mortal were set out in plain language: grave matter, free will, full knowledge and full consent.

It didn’t matter if the sin were against the Ten Commandments or the Six Commandments of the Church (anyone remember these?). If the above conditions were met it was a mortal sin - period.

Yes, there could be mitigating circumstances in many cases – but not all. Ignorance (lack of knowledge) excused in some, but a distinction was made between vincible and invincible ignorance. Some things you may not have known, but others you should have known. And so on for gravity, consent and freedom of the will.

But one thing we were sure of: direct killing of the innocent could never be justified. And that was long before abortion became ‘optional’ as it is for many today.

That was fundamental and there were no options.

Lynda said...

It seems to me "the fundamental option" was/is just a semantic ploy to make mortal sin appear a ver rare phenomenon, as so many dissenting theologians have falsely but with much success (on their part) asserted. It was a decisive weapon in the arsenal employed in the war against the truth of our sinful nature, and the ease with which we can descend into a life of mortal sin, especially if we choose to deny it. The concept is a direct attack on the truth of our natural ability to recognise right and wrong and to freely make decisions as to how to act. I recall one moral theology professor (a dissenting priest who never dressed as a priest or in any way acknowledged his priesthood, whilst living off it) trying to convince his class that none of us was intelligent enough to have ever committed a mortal sin! Well, I knew I had committed numerous mortal sins so it not only was illogical but did not comport with my experience, which would be fairly typical of a person brought up in the Faith in Western society in the late 20th century. Denial of sun and its effects leads to a hardening of the heart and greater, more habitual sin.

Anonymous said...

HYPOCRISY ALERT!!!!!!

The Yin and Yang of Prelates!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2284833/Cardinal-Cormac-Murphy-OConnor-Former-Roman-Catholic-leader-England-Wales-demands-reform-Vatican-wake-scandals.html

Wasn’t there a situation some years ago involving an Airport Chaplain and His Eminence? Ah Yes! Didn’t he find himself subject to public scrutiny regarding a priest of his diocese when he was Bishop of Arundel and Brighton. Wasn’t it to do with a priest, Michael Hill?

This sorry excuse for a cardinal is truly appaling and I am being ultra-charitable because it’s Lent!

O Lord give us some holy priests, bishops and cardinals!

Mother4 said...

In this culture of "all about me" this fundamental option is just another point of bad cathechesis . Another way to excuse our behavior without taking responsibility for our sins. And another way to spin our sinful nature so as to not have to suffer the consequences or hurt someone's feelings!

Thank you to the Cardinal for being so forthright in stating it is not correct doctrine.

Florianus said...

sorry but Cardinal Arinze is wrong here (around 4:40 onwards). See CCC 1857 and 1862. All three conditions (grave matter, intention, knowledge) have to be met together so it is a mortal sin. If all three are not met together, it is a venial sin, contrary to what the cardinal says.

Lynda said...

That is what he said. He upholds the doctrine of the Faith. It is the false notions espoused by so many dissenter theologians that he decries.

Anonymous said...

Amazing how the core Christ teaching that we love unconditionally, forgive enemies and do not judge are all trashed by those who condemn a cardinal, name a priest from decades ago, about an incident we know only media spin.A sex story of course as those of us raised with the Baltimore C. written by the Ireland Hierarchy for the Irish at the time that said masturbation was a mortal sin and would send us to the same Hell as a Pope's assassin. At the same time US Catholics would not let blacks join the K of C. Jesus' Law is still as ignored, denied and avoided by millions today, but watch how the homilists harp on abortion, same-gender unions and totally ignore how Governments in the USA and here in Europe destroy the vulnerable while Eminences harp on about politicians taking communion who are pro-abortion. Total imbalance, same for the culture, drone Afghanistan, sort-of-necessary but commit adultery or abuse a child if one is a priest, not a rabbi or pro-gay "marriage" Anglican and all hell breaks loose. And donate Lottery money to a Baptist church and listen to the pastor and his deacon board.

Simon Platt said...

Dear PVD,

I'm afraid I had a rather different interpretation of His Grace's valedictory Pastoral Letter. I thought he was rather having a dig at the Holy Father. And so I went to read it, carefully, and was confirmed in my opinion. I thought it rather poor, rather shoddy.

Anonymous said...

I take issue with someone touting the Baltimore Catechism. It was fine if the nuns didn't make everyone memorize it. Memorization is just fine if one knows the meaning of what they are remembering. My 3 siblings went to catholic school in the 1920-30's. I didn't get any schooling. They talked about memorization. They all left the church. I came in when I was 17 after going to mass all that time. I am the only one who stayed with the church. I deem catholic high school might be more important than grade school when a person has more thinking power to realize what they are being taught and to revere it.
Cardinal Arinze is only repeating what is correct and a catholic high school course would have made that clear. Converts would probably know it better than life long catholics.
AND making a life on earth especially comfortable for our bodies, will not help our souls live in heaven someday. Our souls are going to leave those bodies some day and we had better work for finding the best place for our souls which will live forever (eternity).
PLEASE GOD ENLIGHTEN YOUR "SHEEP"

 

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